Advice for Disciplining Neice When She Puts My Child in Danger...

Wow, I'm disappointed with a lot of the mother's responses regarding this. I may be the only voice of dissention (and reason!), but I am not going to validate your bad behavior. Your reaction was way over the top for a FOUR AND A HALF YEAR OLD CHILD. That being said, do we always act as we should? No, and I understand you were scared and your first reaction was to yell out of concern for the safety of your child. Is it sad and deplorable that her parents aren't disciplining her as they should be (at least, according to your version of the story)? Yes. But it is not the child's fault and she is still a child who is not yet accountable for her actions. You are an adult who should take this opportunity to teach your niece, not yell at her and label her and write her off. Thankfully, your daughter was okay. Obviously, you don't have other kids, but wait until you have another one and you tell your daughter a bazillion times not to pick up the baby. But guess what? You turn your back and what are they doing? Your niece's behavior is not uncommon and not "monster" like (I totally agree with the mom who said your niece probably looks at your daughter as a life-size doll who does really cool things). You should definitely have some strong words with her, but leave the yelling and/or spanking to her parents. I have learned the hard way to expect the unexpected with kids and to always keep an eye on them, not just your own. This is a great opportunity to talk with your in-laws about your concern for your niece and also talk with your niece. You should apologize to her for your strong reaction, but tell her you were scared that the baby could have gotten hurt and that you were disappointed and upset that she didn't listen to you when you asked her not to pick up the baby. Think of how you'd want your daughter to be treated if she were misbehaving (heaven forbid, but it will happen). Don't worry, having a slice of humble pie now and then is good for you.

Probably not the right thing to do, but I would have yelled at her to, especially given the numerous times she has put your child in a dangerous situation. If the family is mad, oh well. It's very easy to point fingers when they are not in the situation. Like someone else said, I would avoid the family at all costs, or I would keep your little one in your sight at all times while you are in the company of the neice. I think given this childs record, you are not doing your job as a parent if you let your baby out of your sight around her. And the parents of the 2 yo should defintietly not let him/her around the neice. Poor girl sounds a little nutz, hopefully her parents will get her some help. My son is 4 and I can guarantee you he doesn't even know what a match or a lighter is, let alone would be able to start a fire. Shame on her parents for letting her have access to that kind of stuff.

My way of dealing with it has been to let my sister know how I discipline my own kids- time out etc. and be very clear with her children or other friends that come over to my house about the rules. They get one warning and the next time I actually enforce it. It is trickier when they are at someone else's house, but then you have to be honest with your family about how their child's behavior affects you and your family and that you need their help. Mostly I think you have to come from the perspective of love... somehow you have to love their naughty little girl so that you can discipline and treat her as you would your own child, even physically restrain her if you have to. But the negligence on her parent's part is simply their disregard for everyone else. Obviously they don't care about anyone else- or their own child's safety for that matter- and are too lazy to put the effort into setting limits for her.
If your setting limits doesn't work when you are around, and the parents refuse to be supportive, you may have to do what you suggest and just stay away from her- and keep your kids away as well. I have found many so-called naughty kids could actually be very good at my house because they new I was serious about the rules and that I cared about them.
Good luck.

I agree that screaming at her (as you put it) was maybe not the best choice, but again, I can't say I would have acted any differently. They obviously are choosing to do (or not do, as the case may be) what they want with their child, they should allow you the same right!

One thing that often works well for me is to write a letter (or an email would probably work - especially since you can cc ALL of the family members at once, so they all know what was said and there won't me any misconstrued gossip or misquoting you among the family). I think I would write an email to the parents of this child and "let it all out" as politely as you can. And I absolutely agree that your husband needs to put his foot down too. It's his brother and his family, and he can definitely get away with more than you can.

The beauty of a letter is that you can take the time to say exactly what you want and edit it if necessary. It gives you more opportunity to say what needs to be said with the least amount of hurtfulness. Obviously, you love this family, and what your letter says should reflect that in wording and tone. They need to understand that, like one other mom here said, once Madison hurts someone (like your baby), the damage is done and there's no going back. Madison doesn't understand that her actions have consequences - it doesn't seem like she's seen much discipline, so consequences are probably even more foreign to her than to most kids her age - and sometimes those consequences affect people other than her. How crappy would her parents have felt if your baby was injured by their child? Would it have bothered them at all? If so, then you're halfway to making them understand that they need to take their daughter in hand. Once she starts school in a couple of years, they will have people who don't have the love for them that you do telling them that their daughter is too much to handle. That kid is going to end up behind bars as a juvenile or adult if she is not taught responsibility for her behavior and respect for others' welfare and property. This is the age when children really integrate those things into their personalities, and if she doesn't learn it when she's little, it will be much harder for her to learn it when she's older (some never do)! Good luck!

This is a hard one, but you know....
I can honestly say I would have done the same thing.
I probably would have also yelled at her parents to.
They are being very irresponsible and need to go to parenting classes.

The short time I was in a homeless shelter...
They refused to allow you to have your child on a playground with less then 10 feet from you at all times.
They were appaulled if you allowed your child out of your sight even to go to the bathroom.

I would just relax and not worry about it.... this may have just opened their eyes to realize that she could have seriously hurt your child. Maybe this will get them to start actually parenting their child.

Don't feel bad about getting upset with your niece. It would be one thing if her parents were there to discipline her and you took it upon yourself to do so anyway but the whole reason you had to yell to begin with was because they weren't disciplining her! You were trying to be polite by the 1,000 times you told the girl nicely to leave your baby alone.

If they are not going to do anything what did they expect you to do? She could seriously harm your child if she were to drop her. And who knows what else this child could do to your daughter based off of the fire and other naughty behaviors. I would never leave your daughter alone with your niece. If that were my daughter I would have been all over her, you wouldn't even have had to say it more than once. As an adult and a parent, I would have told my child from the get go to leave the baby alone, especially if I could tell you were irritated with my child's behavior already. Who wants someone irritated with their child? What is wrong with them? You should be upset with them, not them at you.

You or your husband should let them know they are putting their daughter at risk for getting yelled at by others and putting her at risk for not being liked by others due to their lack of disciplining. If you are family and get this upset by her behavior, you need to remind them of how a stranger might get even more mad. If they choose not to discipline her they need to be aware that their daughters behavior might ilicit certain feelings in others that are not always going to be favorable.

Friends you can choose not to go around but with family I know is not that easy, you have to see them at birthdays, holidays and other family get togethers. And since it's your husbands brother and not yours; they probably will paint you as the evil wife if you say something. This is not a distant family member that you can really blow off (as was suggested), this is a brother. At some point this is going to have to addressed and dealt with.

Here's what I did with spouse family issues:
My husband is really laid back and used to never say anything to his family, which in the past caused ALOT of problems between us. If an issue came about he wouldn't want me to say anything to his family yet he didn't want to handle it either. I told him that was unacceptable and unfair. When it's my family that does something, I speak up, why didn't he have to do the same?
The problem was that my husband took as though I didn't like his family when I had issues with them. I had to explain to him that it wasn't that I didn't like his family member(s), it was that I didn't like their behavior about what ever took place.
I prefer to speak up about issues so that we can resolve the problem, not so I can be mean or nasty. I love spending time with family, I don't want anything hindering our time and making it unpleasant. I love all of his family and want us to be together. I want us to actually enjoy our time together. If we could just talk about the issue and move on, then it would be over instead of dragging it on and on and on forever. Why do that? Let's just talk and it out and move on.
Well even telling him that didn't totally work, I missed a couple of things, and what do you know, he started to speak up. I wasn't giving him an ultimatum, I was giving him a choice. A choice to make our family get togethers enjoyable for all. My husband now will speak up when something happens but it took him a while to get to that point. I don't know if that's your issue but it's a suggestion on how to handle it since it's his family.

Best of luck.

You answered your own question in the last statement . . . keep this little monster away from you and your child. It may cause difficulty in your relationship with your family, but your own child needs your protection and should come first. You need to talk to the parents, too, and explain why you don't want to be around Madison. Imagine what kind of influence she could have on your child as she gets older! Yikes!

I don't disagree with your actions - especially after you had told her over and over again and she still wouldn't listen - and her parents would not enforce it. It just get to a point when there's nothing left to do but YELL! In hindsight, you probably should have made one of her parents come in the room with you - let them take care of your neice and you take care of the baby.

I'm sure your neice doesn't intentionally want to hurt the baby - she probably is just like every other little girl, and loves babies and holding them. And especially one that's "hers" (her cousin). It's like having a life-sized baby doll that actually DOES stuff!

But, if your neice is as misbehaved as you say, then there is a chance she could hurt your daughter, and there will always be that thought in your mind. And if her parents won't discipline her, that's not really your problem. It will come back to bite them one day, for sure. All you can do is monitor her with your child, and set rules and boundaries - and, as gently but forcefully, enforce them. If she won't mind you, you explain to her parents what you expect from her. I know they don't really try to do anything about her, but if you tell them what YOU want, they will respect your wishes (hopefully).

The sad thing is that your sis & brother-in-law are either in total denial or just don't care about what their child does. You will never be able to control or change your niece unless you take a very active role in her life. Offering to have her over all the time, basically adopting her. In that you could model better behavior for her and hopefully become someone she looks up to and wants to be like. If you cannot do this, then your only option is to seriously limit the time you are around her and your in-laws. Maybe you could do the inviting to your house, so you have more control over the situation (hide all the matches, lock some of your rooms up). I am so sorry you have to go through this! We are required to love our family, but not necessarily like them! Good luck!

If your sister and BIL refuse to do anything as far as discipline, it is not your job to discipline your niece when they are there. Therefore, I would definitely limit my time around all of them.
You have to do what is right by your own family. Honestly, I think you care about your niece and do not want her hurting herself or others, you sound frustrated. Have you ever tried to sit down (when everyone is calm and nothing is going on) and let the parents know how you feel?
I wouldn't even make it all about your child, I'd say I was concerned for her own safety, that kids need and want boundaries.

I disagree with the person who said it is not your job to watch your niece around your baby. If you know that about your niece it is your job. I do agree with the one who said that the niece probably doesn't mean to hurt your child. I have three kids and the older ones tried to pick up the younger ones. However, I do believe there is also jealousy and they sometimes do mean things out of jealousy.

Also, if you do write or email a letter like the one person suggested, read it over more than five time, and have someone not close to the situation read it too. You may know what you mean but it may come out differently in writing. This has happened to me when someone used the word you, they meant to write the word one. It sounds way different to say when you do this, than when one does this.

One problem with society is that often people think if it doesn't affect me I don't need to deal with it or worry about it. However, we should care what others do and how it affects
others, even when we are not directly involved. I spent a lot of time with my nephew because his parents were around at certain points in his life. I could have the attitude they don't care why should I, but I love my nephew no matter what he does. He has turned out to be a great kid in spite of having parents that spent very little time with him. I believe it is directly because of mine and my mothers involvement. So, please don't write off your niece because of her parents. You could be the one person who really turns her around.

My prayers are with you, hope it goes well.
K.

I am so sorry for you! If it was me, I would have probably done the very same thing! Just because when my kids are in danger, my first reaction is to lash out at the person closest to me. The child who lacks discipline needs some kind of direction in her life. If her parents are unwilling to do it, where your child is concerned you have EVERY right to say and do what you think will keep your child safe. If the parents continue to not discipline, I would make it perfectly clear that she is no longer welcome to be around the baby until the baby is old enough to get away from her if need be. If they have a problem with that, it is too bad! It is hard for parents who don't discipline to see that their child is in the wrong. I think it is hard for any parent to admit that their child is doing something wrong. I say stick to your guns. If it was me, that child would NEVER be around my baby again. Good luck!

First of all I think that our most important priority in raising children should be keeping our children safe, so I think you are doing the right thing by focusing on the issue and starting to think about how you are going to handle this in the future. I believe that even though this is going on with family members, it should not have an impact on how you handle the situation. You probably wouldn't go easy on a kid doing the same thing if they were a stranger, so I don't think you should go easy on your brother and sister in law or the niece. Many of us try time-outs and redirecting for normal discipline situations. But, I don't feel dangerous situations warrent that type of discipline. I think your impulse reaction was normal and what most mothers would do. It is always easier for people on the outside (like the other family members at the lakehouse) to see things from a different perspective because it is not their child and they didn't experience the impulse emotions you had at the moment you saw your child.

I actually talked about your story with my husband and we talked about what we would do if this happened within our family (especially since my neice recently started biting so this may be applicable to us soon). If it got bad enough, and felt our child's saftey was an issue, we thought we would probably treat it like an intervention that you would do with somebody who has an addiction. In a loving and non-confrontational manner, we both agreed that we would sit down and talk with the parents of the naughty child and be straight up and frank with them that we are worried about the safety of our child. We would stick to the facts and be specific about which behaviors have already caused concern, but we would not talk about anything that we think may happen in the future. We would point out how the naughty child's behavior has impacted our lives and how it has made us feel. We would end the meeting with our demands. We would set ground rules for the naughty child's behavior in our home and that includes rules for the parents! If the rules are not followed, we would tell them that we will not allow our child to play with or be around the naughty child until their behavior improves. We would also offer a number for a doctor that specializes in family discipline and behavior issues. We feel that these demands puts the responsibilty in the hands of the parents of the naughty child. From there...we would have to wait and see if the parents and child follow our house rules and if they don't that will be another bridge to cross at another time.

My husband and I will pray for you and your family. Stay strong and try to stay focused on the safety issue and keep as much emotion out of it as possible (I know...easier said than done). Hang in there!

Wow you are on target about this. It is the most difficult part of parenting -- dealing with neices and nephews. If you are going to be interacting with them alot as the kids grow up, then you will have to take a firm hand to start with. You are on the right track but it may help you to take an assertiveness training course to confirm your actions. It will allow you to address the issues with the parents when appropriate and with the kid when necesary. If the parents hav enot control, it really is their issue. It is amazing that youare at the point of going....I must look out for the safety of my kid(s) when this kid is around. But if that is the reality, then it must be acted upon. Good luck with it all!

C. Willis
Stop Poisoning your kids -- Clean naturally!
www.LiveTotalWellness.com/Arizona

You had EVERY RIGHT to yell at her. I would have done the EXACT smae thing. YOu have every right STILL to bring this up with you SIL and BIL. I would reccomend keeping your cool while talking to them because that will go over much better. THeir daughter NEEDS Displine period! It is obviously there is LACK OF PARTENTING here and it WILL FOR SURE ONLY GET WORSE ~ unless they step up to the plate and be responsibile adults... I find when I am feeling my blood boil sometimes it is better to WRITE A LETTER. I would let them know, THEY MUST PARENT THEIR CHILD NOW or SOCIETY WILL DO IT LATER (JUVIE ~ PRISON ~ GET THE PICTURE)! You can write a letter and keep a cool tone while writing but I would keep your distance from their child! SHe clearly has been taught she CAN do ANYTHING she wants with NO CONSEQUENCE ~ THIS IS TERRIFYING IN MY OPINION! EVERY NEEDS A CONSEQUENCE FOR POOR BEHAVIOR OR THEY LEARN NOTHING! You don't wnat to be an enabler of BAD BEHAVIOR!
I had an issue with my 12 year old niece a year ago (she has never been disiplined). I planned a GREAT Family renion for everyone and this one child was a first CLASS BRAT to "ME" & others. As they were leaving I ended up chewing her out and her mom stood their defending her. I flat out told her that Her & her daughter, that the daughter needed to be disiplined like all the other neices and nephews. She had no respect for anyone & I will NOT Tollerate it any longer! I told the 2 of them how big of a Brat the child was (she had picked fights the whole time with my little 8 year old son ~ it was rediculous!)... Needless to say, even with the manipulations and excuses from the SIL, I held my ground and did not budge. I ended up recieving a letter a week later from my neice with an Appology. Though she still is not dispilined, She treats me and MY children so much better because I clearly let them know ~ I WILL NOT TOLLERATE crappy behavior!
You'd be a fool to NOT say anything! I believe it would be WISE to pray about it FIRST ~ ACT don't REACT!!! If you take the time to collect your thoughts and ask GOD for guidance in what to say, it will all come out better!
Otherwise ~ Keep your distance!
This could be a positive thing if dealt with properly NOW!!!
Good Luck and remember ~ Stay STRONG, Stay Calm & Keep your Cool!
I FEEL FOR YOU!

I don't blame you for yelling at her. In a similar situation I have done the same. You asked for how to handle it. I will tell you my experience and then I will give some advice that will probably be fairly unpopular, but I think is real valid.

I had a similar experience with my brother and his wife. I can share what we did, and take from it what you think will help you. After having enough of an experience with my nephew to know that my daughter was getting hurt, I would step in. What I did was let my nephew know that what he did was not an acceptable way of treating other people(loudly enough for his parents to hear) and then I would march him up to his parents and tell him to explain to them what he did to my daughter. If parents did not do anything at that point, I would calmly ask them (in front of him) do you want to discipline your child or shall I? If they did not then I would sit him down for a time out, require an apology to the hurt child afterward, etc.

It is hard to remain calm when your child is being hurt, but if you do this with anger, it will not work. People go on the defensive when they are being told what to do or being yelled at.

Now for the part that is probably going to be unpopular, but I really do think it is right. You need to apologize for yelling at your niece and to your BIL/SIL for yelling at them. It is understandable to yell (it is a natural reaction) but to leave it like that is not good long term for the relationship. It also teaches your niece and them that it an acceptable way to behave. Think about it, if they yelled at you or your daughter (even if you were wrong) you would expect an apology. I also would not email and CC everyone in your family. That will not prevent gossiping. Now, do not think I am suggesting that you allow this niece around your baby or that you accept the parenting style of your inlaws. But if you want a positive relationship or one that you can influence any of these three people in anyway in the future, you need to apologize. Family relationships are not about who is right, but treating each other right. Sometimes it means a lot of forgiveness and not getting offended by other people, but in the long run, it is a better way.

Good luck!

This probably going to sound drastic, but until your daughter is much bigger you are better off just avoiding the niece. It sucks not to see your family, but frankly that niece sound nuts. It does not matter whose fault it is, if the niece harms your child (or worse teaches your daughter to set fire to things in a year or so) it isn't going to matter whose fault it is, the damage will be done.

Your only family now is your husband & your daughter. Period. Your job is to keep them safe over anything else.

That niece sounds like she may need some serious help too, I am in the early childhood education field myself, and that sounds like awfully extreme behavior. Especially for a child under five.

Good luck, and keep your child away from your niece!!

wow, what a situation. I can understand why you would be so upset. At some point your husband should have stepped in and possibly talked to his brother, his brother's wife etc... and told him that his niece is bad as hell.... (excuse my french) you did the right thing, because it is your duty to protect your baby. you warned Madison time and time again not to pick her up and she decided to be even sneakier and go and do it anyway. Now what if she would have dropped her? You are a new parent and your SIL and BIL should understand your worry. They should have been watching Madison. It is not your job to watch your niece around your baby unless you are babysitting. If they don't want to discipline her, then you need to yell at her, or do whatever you have to do so that she knows you are not going to stand for her putting your baby in danger. Me personally, I would explain calmly to her why it is not safe or nice to poke your baby in the face, pick her up, or do mean things to her. And if you catch her doing it... Just like you said. "she can not touch her again" until she is old enough to defend herself or tell on her. The reason I say that your husband should have yelled at her, or disciplined her is because he probably could have gotten away with it. without the family being upset or leaving because he is the uncle. and there is a fine line when it comes to stuff like that. that way you wouldn't have looked like the bad guy. But, you reacted. and you reacted appropriately.If I caught my niece about to drop my baby..... after many warnings.... the whole house would have heard about it.

Dear Kllshsu,

Be the "Mama Bear!" Protect your cub and be bold about setting helathy loving boundaries for this little girl who may feel unloved because her parents don't seem to care.

Good luck, Sweetie.

XXOO, J.